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All those negative numbers in the TLK

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All those negative numbers in the TLK

Postby giftfish » 07 Sep 2014, 16:38

@warrantyvoider -- Something I've been meaning to ask.

Is there any way to keep the TLK Editor from putting in those bogus string integers during the TLK-XML conversion?

For example, if 619758 has nothing between the data tags (but the number is is still referenced in a dlg file), then the XML renames the string to something like -214839450578. It would be very useful for the *correct* strings to stay in place, so we know which ones are actually used in the game files. That's the only way to ensure modders don't accidentally use a string that the game references.
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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby WarrantyVoider » 08 Sep 2014, 17:53

dunno, these are not my tools, and I dont have much time these days. someone has to RE the TLK format for that I guess

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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby giftfish » 08 Sep 2014, 21:18

giftfish wrote:@warrantyvoider -- Something I've been meaning to ask.

Is there any way to keep the TLK Editor from putting in those bogus string integers during the TLK-XML conversion?

For example, if 619758 has nothing between the data tags (but the number is is still referenced in a dlg file), then the XML renames the string to something like -214839450578. It would be very useful for the *correct* strings to stay in place, so we know which ones are actually used in the game files. That's the only way to ensure modders don't accidentally use a string that the game references.

WarrantyVoider wrote:dunno, these are not my tools, and I dont have much time these days. someone has to RE the TLK format for that I guess

greetz WV

Oh, I didn't know that. Who made the TLK Editor, wv?
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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby WarrantyVoider » 09 Sep 2014, 06:20

"DerPlayer" and "Gocek" I guess, see "about" menu

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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby giftfish » 09 Sep 2014, 14:28

WarrantyVoider wrote:"DerPlayer" and "Gocek" I guess, see "about" menu

greetz WV

Ha, I never looked there.

Ok, well, maybe I'll ask TM if he can look at both the TLK conversion process and the Conditional Editor once he has things wrapped up with his Coalesced and Plot Editor :)
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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby TankMaster » 09 Sep 2014, 15:58

Skimmed over most, lol, but if you need any of the TLK's, I can upload them. However, if I upload my XML conversion, you'll have to use my edited TLK Editor to rebuild the TLK's, lol. Though, the nice thing with it is that it no longer uses the "Position" value.

Edit:
Also noticed I was viewing a way earlier comment, lol.
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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby giftfish » 09 Sep 2014, 16:16

TankMaster wrote:Skimmed over most, lol, but if you need any of the TLK's, I can upload them. However, if I upload my XML conversion, you'll have to use my edited TLK Editor to rebuild the TLK's, lol. Though, the nice thing with it is that it no longer uses the "Position" value.

Edit:
Also noticed I was viewing a way earlier comment, lol.

That's interesting that you no longer use positions. So they aren't necessary? That would actually make DLC mod TLKs much easier to deal with. Having to renumber 200 entries by hand repeatedly gets...annoying, LOL.

The two issues I've noticed with the current TLK Editor is:

1 -- Missing characters. There are a variety of characters that get corrupted during the conversion. For folks not using a DLC mod, these characters have to be replaced by hand before resaving the XML as a TLK, or they won't appear properly in game (you'll get rectangular boxes).

2 -- Improper string numbers. When no text is present between the data tags, the conversion process corrupts the actual string number referred to in other game files. Instead of 674920, you'll see -214859573909 or something like that. This is confusing because the real string (674920) is referred to by the Dialogue Editor, but a Ctrl+F of the XML/TLK gives the modder the impression that 674920 isn't used by the game...when it actually is.

I'll comment on the Conditional Editor stuff over in the Natives thread :)
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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby TankMaster » 09 Sep 2014, 16:49

Well, it still uses position's at the core, i just have it calculate them on the fly (when it compiles from XML -> TLK) the same way it does from TLK -> XML. As for the missing characters, I don't think that is any issue with mine (I could be wrong, haven't done editing to the DLC's, just extracted). Also, the negative numbers are required and correct. I proved this to myself when I changed one to a positive (when I was adding Javik to the reset talents list). Also, from what I can see, they actually decrease from start to end, kinda like a reverse counter. Unless, I missunderstood the comment, hah.

I'll edit this post in a couple mins when I have the zip, will convert the non-_INT.tlk files first.

Edit:
Here is a zip of the TLK tool & the English (*_INT) files, will upload the rest once I am done converting them.

http://1drv.ms/1scmOv3

Edit:
Forgot a file or two, updated.
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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby giftfish » 09 Sep 2014, 17:26

TankMaster wrote:Well, it still uses position's at the core, i just have it calculate them on the fly (when it compiles from XML -> TLK) the same way it does from TLK -> XML. As for the missing characters, I don't think that is any issue with mine (I could be wrong, haven't done editing to the DLC's, just extracted). Also, the negative numbers are required and correct. I proved this to myself when I changed one to a positive (when I was adding Javik to the reset talents list). Also, from what I can see, they actually decrease from start to end, kinda like a reverse counter. Unless, I missunderstood the comment, hah.

I'll edit this post in a couple mins when I have the zip, will convert the non-_INT.tlk files first.

Edit:
Here is a zip of the TLK tool & the English (*_INT) files, will upload the rest once I am done converting them.

http://1drv.ms/1scmOv3

Positions: Hm, ok. I wonder how that will end up working with the male/female issue and when modders add new strings. Some weird things can happen with that. It may have an impact, it may not.

Missing Characters: These occur in any TLK. Main game or DLC doesn't matter. It's just that if the player is modding the main game TLK (replacing BIOGame_INT.tlk), they will corrupt all characters of a certain kind in that TLK, since they are replacing the entire thing. If they are making their own TLK as a DLC mod, then they are only including the new/modded content, so it doesn't disrupt any characters outside the actual strings they are replacing/adding.

TLK numbering: Hmmm. Ok, that's weird. Those '-214" numbers are in the "slots" where the actual TLK string would be. Take a look at the "Wrap Up" section in this post. This is what I mean. String 641236 is used by the game in one of Thane's dialogues. But, you'd never know it from searching in the TLK. Rather than it being present, string -2146842412 is present. That's the "slot" for 641236, you can see it sandwiched between 641235 and 641237.

For ThaneMOD, I have removed several of these -214 numbers and replaced them with the actual string referenced by the DE. That was how I was able to insert new lines for FemShep and Thane into the convo in several of the "Autocontinue" spots (like you see in the screenshot). This was also when I discovered that I couldn't trust using a Ctrl+F on the TLK to ensure a string wasn't used. Since the game refers to tons of these "unused" strings in dialogue files (every "No Data" entry has one), but doesn't use the same numbers in the TLK, they are impossible to track. Being able to track them would be a very good thing.

So..why are the negative numbers necessary? Why can't the actual TLK string be displayed in that spot? What it seems like is if the data field contains -1, then the string field gets changed to the -214 number.
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Re: TUTORIAL: Dialogue Editing

Postby TankMaster » 09 Sep 2014, 18:14

Well, good thing you mentioned that, I forgot I had to use a small workaround for the entries starting at around 134217729 (the last 4 in the main TLK), and use something like <String id="134217729" alwaysAdd="true">BIOGame</String>. I think a newer version of the TLK editor does that without needing the alwaysAdd attribute, just not in the version I uploaded.
-
As for the rest, let me look at the code some. I just know I replaced a -214 once and it showed up in a subtitle that had no dialog, lol.
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