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[Article] DDS Converter

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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby KFreon » 27 Feb 2016, 21:41

Couple of quick things about the article:
- "Editor" - I'd rather it was called "Converter" or something, since you can't actually edit anything.
- When you open the Convert panel, the default format selected is original image format, not just DXT5.


Otherwise nicely done :)
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby giftfish » 27 Feb 2016, 21:46

KFreon wrote:Couple of quick things about the article:
- "Editor" - I'd rather it was called "Converter" or something, since you can't actually edit anything.
- When you open the Convert panel, the default format selected is original image format, not just DXT5.


Otherwise nicely done :)

I'll make the changes along with what will likely be quite a few others, since it hasn't had an actual edit, yet. No worries.
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby CreeperLava » 27 Feb 2016, 21:51

Good points, I edited the article :).
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby giftfish » 27 Feb 2016, 23:30

FYI, working on this right now, and making some changes to the main Texture article as well.
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby CreeperLava » 28 Feb 2016, 07:54

I don't understand why you removed the ressources I had put at the bottom. They can't hurt, and they can be really useful for people who wouldn't understand what MIPs or alphas are. Not sure I like the table you used for the formats either, it's not really easy to read, plus it is very incomplete. At least add DXT5 and DXT1 in formats and DDS in file type... Look at the IE6 picture (at the bottom), it shows all the available conversions.
Imho, we should rollback to the previous revision of the article.

Another remark : "Formerly called "DDS Converter", KFreon created and develops Image Engine." should be "Formerly called "DDS Converter", the Image Engine was created and developped by KFreon.", it's clearer that way.
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby giftfish » 28 Feb 2016, 15:30

@Creeper --

1. The same table format is used across the entire wiki.

2. The content you're missing has been moved to the "Textures in Mass Effect" resource article. Tool articles should be as narrow in scope as possible, to what's directly needed to use the tool. We already have a great "Textures in Mass Effect" article and that's where all that type of information should be. Now, if anyone has a question about mips, alpha, formats/compression, proportion, etc, it's all in the same article. The additional formats/compressions/files covered in the Image Engine article are not used by game and *only* relevant when using Image Engine.

3. Wikipedia is not a creditable source and not one we should be linking. I've inserted new sources from Microsoft's own documentation, as these are *their* surface formats. In addition, the sources have been moved to the "Textures in Mass Effect" article, as that's where they are relevant.

4. We are absolutely not rolling back to the previous version of the article.

Creeper, I want to emphasize to not take this personally. Any article written for the wiki is going to receive that same type of editing treatment to ensure information is located in the most appropriate place, it reads the best it can, it adheres to established format guidelines, etc.
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby giftfish » 28 Feb 2016, 15:48

@Kfreon -- I need some clarification on one thing with Image Engine:

If the alpha toggle doesn't do anything, does this mean the texture contains no alpha data, or that the alpha is set to 100%?

I've worded the wiki as the former, but, according to GIMP, Nvidia's Texture Tool, and Compressonator, the images I tested in Image Engine yesterday do have alpha (set to 100% opaque), but the alpha toggle doesn't do anything. The only ones I could find that had alpha that were affected by the toggle were the DXT5s.

Technically, I have one other question, but it's wrapped in a UI change I"m going to suggest, so I'll ask on Git :)
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby CreeperLava » 28 Feb 2016, 15:53

Aaah, my bad, hadn't seen all the changes you made to the Textures in ME article.

3. I can understand why you wouldn't trust Wikipedia entirely, but it is still a great source of information. It isn't as complete as Microsoft's site from what I can see, but it is less overwhelming and better explained imo.

"I want to emphasize to not take this personally" Sure, no problem. I wasn't understanding your decisions, that's all :).
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby CreeperLava » 28 Feb 2016, 16:05

I still don't understand the table though, I edited it to reflect formats that actually are in the game (eg DXT1 and 5) and removed those that aren't, afaik (DXT2 and 4). Still, it is lacking a lot of formats and is redundant with the Textures article. Why not remove it entirely ? Or make it exhaustive.
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Re: [Article] Image Engine

Postby giftfish » 28 Feb 2016, 16:23

CreeperLava wrote:I still don't understand the table though, I edited it to reflect formats that actually are in the game (eg DXT1 and 5) and removed those that aren't, afaik (DXT2 and 4). Still, it is lacking a lot of formats and is redundant with the Textures article. Why not remove it entirely ? Or make it exhaustive.

You aren't reading the sentence that comes before the table properly. The contents of the table on the Image Engine page summarize the formats/compressions that Image Engine is capable of changing -- IN ADDITION to the formats/compressions in the Textures article.

With wikis you really, really never want to repeat information unnecessarily. This is the entire reason you use links instead. If that information is ever affected and you have to change it, you then need to change every. Single. Reference. If you explain it once, and then link to that location consistently, then if that information ever changes, you only have to edit the one location.

With you're change to the table, you've now removed two compression formats Image Engine is capable of using: DXT2/4. The game doesn't use these formats, which is why they don't appear in the Textures in Mass Effect article.

The table in Textures in Mass Effect reflects what the trilogy uses, as that's the focus of the article. The table in the Image Engine article reflects the ADDITIONAL formats that tool is capable of converting from/to.

Yes, I'll be rolling back the changes.
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