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[Article] Getting Started

Help build and maintain the new ME3Explorer Wiki on Wikia.

Re: [Article] Getting Started

Postby giftfish » 31 Jul 2015, 18:13

FemShep wrote:On SourceForge there was no "versions" beyond the stable which was over a year old now. Lots of things have changed since then.

Yes, I'm abundantly aware. However, we still don't want people downloading rev711 as the new stable release until Kfreon has implemented certain fixes for Texplorer, TPF Tools, and ModMaker. For now the stable release should still be rev653, which is the current SF.

EDIT: And I should mention something else since it's pertinent. The current SF contains functionalities in certain tools that were inadvertently removed in subsequent revisions. Kfreon is working on restoring these, but rev653 might be something we want to ensure users have access to, period, until they are restored.

FemShep wrote:The SVN checker is fully not-compatible, at all, with git. 0%. Due to it being SVN/git that also has to compile from source which means users to update need to have git, the compiling things...

The github repl will *not* accept compiled items in the bin folder. They simply add space and developers will recompile the program anyways so there would be no way to update via SVN/(git) as in previous versions.

If a user wants to use a newer version than stable they should never have to compile from source. The Updater I am building can replace the SVN updater. It works with *binary* downloads (like the stable SF one) and not the source ones (git,SF code).

Again, you are using terms I don't understand.

FemShep wrote:The Updater must be separate. It A) wouldn't work without downloading MS3Explorer (which defeats part of its purpose), B) binaries can't be update wile the program is running.

From the other thread, you say it can be incorporated, it's just not stable, yet. So, let's go with that and get it stable.

FemShep wrote:You need to learn how git and github work. These decisions require knowledge of the tools because they're impacting how the toolkit is developed and shared. 1) is not that feasible, github is not a download server its a social coding site. 2) needs non-source code versions downloadable. 3) has to be separate from the main toolkit anyways or it can't update the toolkit. Including the stub in the toolkit as well as separate will solve the download issues. Github can host manual downloads via releases (it won't be very user friendly in terms of interface) but you cannot use them for updating. You have to own servers for that.

No, I really don't. I'm not a developer and I will never contribute code for the toolset. I'm a mod creator and toolset user. I help manage the wiki, b/c I'm one of the few people who wants and has time to. I'm also a very good person for that job in that I'm NOT a developer/coder, have detailed knowledge of toolset functionality, and am a teacher so I know how to write well and break down complex concepts in simpler terms. I see things from a mod creator and user perspective, and I write (and advocate) for those perspectives. If we ever put up a detailed page on the wiki of how to contribute code to the toolset, I will *not* be the person to write it. But, I'll be happy to edit and format it!

Ultimately, the toolset has been created so people can use it. The user is always the most important thing to remember. If there were going to be serious changes and or disadvantages -- from a user perspective -- as a result of moving the toolset, then those should have been discussed prior to the move. I don't have to have detailed knowledge of how github works or how the SF/SVN system used to work. All I know is what the user experience used to be and what it should continue TO be.
giftfish
 

Re: [Article] Getting Started

Postby FemShep » 31 Jul 2015, 19:03

giftfish wrote:Ultimately, the toolset has been created so people can use it. The user is always the most important thing to remember. If there were going to be serious changes and or disadvantages -- from a user perspective -- as a result of moving the toolset, then those should have been discussed prior to the move. I don't have to have detailed knowledge of how github works or how the SF/SVN system used to work. All I know is what the user experience used to be and what it should continue TO be.

Yes, that is why I want to build this updater. Here are the goals of my updater, and why I created it. I think we are arguing about semantics of things that are trying to accomplish the same goal.

  • I've built Mod Manager and I know how ease-of-use affects how many people use the tool - and I know ME3Explorer is... a bit unwieldy.
  • Users who want the newest version (*not the stable one, but the newest one*) shouldn't have to go through SVN update. Which brings me to the next point
  • It is bad coding practice to commit compiled code to a source code repository. It takes up space and pollutes the log of changes. In github we have removed the ability to do this.
  • Which means the SVN updater "idea" (use svn/git to download updates) no longer will work as there is no pre-compiled code the user can run (no .exes)

My updater I am building does this:
  • Only works with pre-compiled builds. Absolutely no source code. As such this updater will not work with with the github source code if a user is contributing to the toolkit (most people won't). If a user is contributing I imagine they will know how to use git and update it through git on their own. The updater is not for them.
  • It will act as a version changer. Say I am on 712 and want to go back to 711. I can open the updater, choose the revision, and it will download, delete, extract, and restart ME3Explorer for you.
  • It will not do this automatically on its own. But it will do all the steps for you.

However, the issue with it is this.
There is no way for the toolkit to know what the latest version is. There is no github.com/me3explorer/latest/download link. It is by release, so e.g. github.com/me3explorer/653/download or something. As such we need to host a list of builds the updater can download. Since this list has to be human-maintained it will have to be on a server. It can be via a private server (me3tweaks, heff) or something like gh-pages (github web pages). I am not really familiar with gh-pages though, I tried it a long time ago and it was confusing compared to normal.

Essentially it would be a hosted .xml document listing all known downloadable revisions, the provider (from where), and the download link. Some people use github's raw links to files but I've seen those links change as github changes things on their backend.

The ME3Explorer github already has 653.
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Re: [Article] Getting Started

Postby giftfish » 31 Jul 2015, 19:34

@FemShep -- All that makes sense. I'm going to respond more in the News thread since this isn't really related to the wiki, and is more pertinent to the discussion over there.
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Re: [Article] Getting Started

Postby giftfish » 25 Feb 2016, 00:44

This article is getting a significant overhaul due to all sorts of recent changes, but is still a WIP.

--Revamped the Download area, due to the move to Git and Nexusmods. No more SVN Updater/Version Switcher and having links to both sites from inside the toolset makes this *so* much easier, omg.
--New Setup area is still a WIP and will cover the new DLC extraction upon toolset opening.
--Configure/Backup areas revamped to account for all 3 games.
--Vanillaing section totally removed; relocated to a new article and expanded.
--Remainder of sections will be tidied more tomorrow.
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Re: [Article] Getting Started

Postby giftfish » 26 Feb 2016, 22:36

Added the new section on DLC unpacking. This change to the toolset is still in the works, so expect more modifications.
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