Welcome
Ladies and Gents:

These forums are now closed and registration disabled.

Please join us at our new forum on Proboards. Our hope is that these new forums are more stable, provide more and better features, and allow continuation of the project forums in a safer, more secure, long term environment.

me3explorer.proboards.com

--The ME3Explorer Team

KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Development board for ME3Explorer tools. Please try to keep discussions for each tool inside its own thread.

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby Alvaro » 05 Oct 2016, 17:17

Hi:

Fantastic news indeed! I´m for one quite happy with the spartan :D look of Texplorer and TPF/DDS Tools but with the arrival of the 3.0 stable I also would love to see them updated in both aesthetics and functionality.

Some quick questions here.


Q1 --> KF, you say Texplorer, TPFTools, and Modmaker are under your wing now. What about Image Engine? Just curious here.


Q2 --> May you please give us more details about this enigmatic statement?

Texplorer has menus and buttons for everything, but you can also drop and drag textures into and out of Texplorer, including entire folders.


Is that what it seems? If so, sounds -extremely!- promising... ;)

Q3 --> My apologies for this very basic question here; most probably a very obvious one to all of you but... What´s the point of generating the thumbnails database during the first time setup?

I would answer to myself because those thumbnails are required by other toolset aplications like Texplorer... but no idea if I am wrong here.

I ask because thinking in toolset performance, I doubt anyone out there would take a look at the thousands -and thousands!- of textures, one by one, using Texplorer, i.e. so no need to have them all in advance.

In fact, those thumbnails could be generated by those given aplications on the fly and, then, stored in the thumbnails database for future use.

Add to the previous we already have the "regenerate thumbnail database" option in Texplorer, so everyone could generate it -from vanilla or modded games- anytime.


Now, I´m going to do some image editing to post a few suggestions to improve both Texplorer and TPF/DDS Tools... given my broken english, any image will be better than my speaking! :lol:

Regards!
Alvaro

PS BTW, drag and drop into TPF/DDS Tools never worked at my end. No idea why! :shock:
User avatar
Alvaro
User
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 15 Mar 2015, 13:06
Has thanked: 8 time
Have thanks: 12 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby Alvaro » 05 Oct 2016, 17:30

Opppssss, I forgot this one!

(EDIT) Q4 --> May you give us any details about any new info to be stored at the game tree? At least to include texture size and LODGroup would be a super nice addition.

Regards!
Alvaro
Last edited by Alvaro on 05 Oct 2016, 17:43, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Alvaro
User
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 15 Mar 2015, 13:06
Has thanked: 8 time
Have thanks: 12 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby CreeperLava » 05 Oct 2016, 17:31

Alvaro wrote:PS BTW, drag and drop into TPF/DDS Tools never worked at my end. No idea why! :shock:

Doesn't work for me either, at least since I switched to W10. The same happened with some other programs that used drag&drop.
User avatar
CreeperLava
User
 
Posts: 844
Joined: 07 Feb 2015, 21:52
Has thanked: 119 time
Have thanks: 83 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby Alvaro » 05 Oct 2016, 20:41

Hi:

Some feedback about those first images:


Regarding the incoming Texplorer,

At the initial panel, what about changing the import/export buttons text? "Backup -and restore- Tree and Thumbnails DB" - is far more acurate, I think.

BTW, the "import" tree is not working in stable 2.0 for me. I´m having a crash when the imported tree.bin already exists in /exec folder, I mean, looks like it is unable to overwrite it. A pop up dialog window would be required here I think.

Image


At the after scan window I´m loving...

(a) Left pane --> the number of textures in every folder!
(b) Center pane --> the new selector surrounding the selected texture!
(c) Rigth pane --> Everything! Looks marvelous! :D


I also hope we will not be having the same behaviour current Texplorer has when checking textures in tree...

Image



Regarding the new TPF/DDs Tools template, I would have reversed the two main buttons at the left corner, in both size and location, leaving the bigger one to analyse and the one at its rigth to install, but that´s just a matter of personal taste, I think. Just another oppinion here.


And, again, and using current TPF/DDS Tools as my template, here you got a few things I would love to see in the new one:



TPF/DDS Suggestion 1 --> let´s short those textures!

Image



TPF/DDS Suggestion 2 --> Tree duplicates!

Image


TPF/DDS Suggestion 2 --> More vissual info, please!

Image


Please, notice this latest image is just a very early and basic suggestion, but I hope you may get the point. Well, you asked for some constructive feedback... :)

HTH!
Alvaro

PS I forgot to add that it would be nice when deleting a texture in TPF/DDS Tools the preview pane would be correctly updated... well, I know, you didn´t want bug reports :) but that´s an old one that slipped into 2.0 and -I haven´t checked it yet-, most probably in 3.0 too, I´m afraid... -?-
User avatar
Alvaro
User
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 15 Mar 2015, 13:06
Has thanked: 8 time
Have thanks: 12 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby Tarshana » 05 Oct 2016, 23:26

I would love to have a 'tree duplicate' entry just in case. When I first came back to ME3 and read through the 2.0 stuff I had not only scanned the DLC but then went and selected "add dlc to tree" because well, I fail at reading. It also let me know when I have messed up a hash when I am pulling stuff from ME3 on my other computer to create on my third computer and adding to my first computer for testing purposes. (Yes, I use 3 computers for testing/creating textures. I like to bloat my work flow).

Funny note Alvaro- I have those same textures pulled up on mine LOL
Tarshana
User
 
Posts: 58
Joined: 21 Aug 2016, 18:14
Has thanked: 3 time
Have thanks: 4 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby KFreon » 05 Oct 2016, 23:58

@Alvaro:
1. ImageEngine is always under my wing since I wrote it :) It's getting an update too, GPU ACCELERATION :D Assuming I can figure out how to do it...

2. I decided Drop and Drag was a more natural way to use textures. It's easier to find them in Explorer than through the File Dialogs, and you can have as many open as you want.
So you can now drag a texture from Explorer to a specific texture in Texplorer (that is onto the texture itself) and it'll be the same as Right Click -> Change Texture, etc.
You can also drag out of Texplorer to extract textures, and the folder view also supports this i.e. you can extract entire Texplorer folders by dragging them out to Explorer.
All of this probably does need some work, especially since I just remembered that the folder method just extracts the textures and doesn't put them in a folder...which it really should.

As for the drag/drop failure, were you doing it as the above paragraph explains? I didn't explain it well in my update.

3. The thumbnails, right.
This is a bit of a toss up between a few things, but for me it came to the UI design principle of Perceived Performance.
Basically it means that the way users perceive the performance of the UI/operations may not be the way it is.
For example, when loading stuff into TPFTools, I add each texture to the UI as soon as I can i.e. I don't wait for the thumbnail to be ready, or any of it's other details.
Once I have it's name, I add it immediately. If I waited for all to be ready, users (consciously or unconsciously) perceive it as being slower despite it being the same time.

The above is a frequent example I see about it, but it's more about perception.
The method you describe will actually impact runtime performance. It'd work fine if there were only a few textures to load at a time, say 5 or 6. Those could be fairly quickly generated and there'd be no problem.
But what about those folders where there's 20+ textures? That'd be an obvious and visible generation performance issue. It'd be threaded and wouldn't impact UI interaction, but it wasn't ready when the user expected it, and is thus "slow".

Treescanning has to happen, and for it to work it has to extract the image to get the hash, so why not just thumbnail it while it's all there ready to go?
Furthermore, this operation is already slow, and it's made very clear to the user that it's going to take time. When the user expects it to take time, the precise time isn't noticeable.
Generating the thumbnails might add a few minutes to the treescan time, but for a 20min treescan, to add 3 minutes isn't noticeable to the user when they expect it to take ~20min.

Hope that helps :) It is a stylistic choice really.

4. Tree storage is always a temptress :)
At this stage, the only thing I've added is the thumbnail details since I've changed how they work, and the folder view to save regenerating that every time.
I don't want to put LOD_Group and texture size in the tree since it changes whenever the texture changes.
That said, I could put it in as the "Original State" or something. May I ask why you want that kind of information to be in the tree?


UI Stuff
I did wonder what text I should use on the Import and Export tree, and while I like "Backup", I don't like "Restore" because it implies that you're putting a previous tree back in.
I envisioned this feature being used to share trees between users, especially since trees can be added to (once I make sure I put that in). That said, I can't think of a reason to use them except maybe when upgrading versions...Hmm I'll think about the wording.

Regarding the old Texplorer:
- The preview shown when double clicking should fill the space, and not need scroll bars.
- I actually don't know what happens if you have a preview showing and you change the folder...I expect it'd go away, but I'm not sure.
EDIT: It doesn't. Nice catch :D

Regarding TPFTools:
- Main buttons: The idea is that you shouldn't need to Analyse separately from Installing. Because of the ImageEngine upgrades, it can just fix textures on the fly, and install away.
The issue with it before was that maybe it wasn't fixing them right, but with Creepers help, those bugs are pretty much squashed.
It's easy to change if the consensus is that Analyse should be prominent too.
- Sorting initially sounds like a good idea, but why when you can filter it with the Search?
- I haven't decided yet how duplicates are going to be handled. It's likely they'll just be a small display inside the listbox entry itself, not a separate entity that can be checked etc.
- Not in tree is very obvious atm, full red background with "NOT FOUND IN TREE" under it :)
As I said above, since the ImageEngine and the Texplorer image code can handle mipmaps and formats easily without user input, I don't want any visuals that indicate a problem. Information sure, and I think mips and format are displayed as "going to be autofixed" or something, but I don't want it to seem like an error.
- Texture info is going to be in the ListBox itself and will be displayed better than it currently is, but ooooo I do like the Vanilla, Ingame, and Selected idea. That's sexy.
- The preview is almost certainly updated when a texture is deleted as now the previous bound to the selection as opposed to being updated when the selection changes. Seems like a small thing, but it's probably fixed :)


I do need to do a bunch of testing though. I'll get around to it, but my focus right now is the ImageEngine as it's the thing slowing the toolset down a bit.
Plus it's also the most interesting to write and testing is tedious :P
User avatar
KFreon
Toolset Developer
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: 16 Apr 2013, 00:57
Has thanked: 83 time
Have thanks: 520 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby Tarshana » 06 Oct 2016, 00:45

If there is any way to assist in testing, I am happy to help. What you have done is nothing short of amazing :) (I need to be more careful when I read)
Tarshana
User
 
Posts: 58
Joined: 21 Aug 2016, 18:14
Has thanked: 3 time
Have thanks: 4 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby KFreon » 06 Oct 2016, 01:15

When I get to testing, I'll put up a test build.
It'd be much appreciated if anyone and everyone could test it :)
Probably won't be for weeks yet though.

KFreon has been thanked by:
User avatar
KFreon
Toolset Developer
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: 16 Apr 2013, 00:57
Has thanked: 83 time
Have thanks: 520 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby CreeperLava » 06 Oct 2016, 05:33

Regarding the old Texplorer:
- The preview shown when double clicking should fill the space, and not need scroll bars.

The previews are shown at full size, which poses problems for big textures, when your monitor resolution is lower than 2048 or 4096 (which is unfortunately my case^^). What would be nice is to have the too big previews scale down, and have a way to zoom in and out of the picture. Like, with a litlle + and - buttons besides.

I also like Alvaro's idea of a table for texture information. Having the "ingame" row could be confusing though for people who have no idea about texturegroups, maybe it should be hidden by default, and unhidden by a "show more details" button, or a downward arrow like in a file explorer tree.
User avatar
CreeperLava
User
 
Posts: 844
Joined: 07 Feb 2015, 21:52
Has thanked: 119 time
Have thanks: 83 time

Re: KFreon's WPF Rewrite

Postby KFreon » 06 Oct 2016, 08:26

@Creeper:
I meant that in the WPF rewrite, they should size to the available space, not the texture size.
Zooming can probably be added easily enough.
User avatar
KFreon
Toolset Developer
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: 16 Apr 2013, 00:57
Has thanked: 83 time
Have thanks: 520 time

PreviousNext

Return to ME3Explorer Toolset Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

suspicion-preferred