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[WIP] ThaneMOD v3.0 Dev

Complimentary board where content modders may host dev threads for mods destined for release. Communicate information, find testers, release Betas, etc.

Re: ThaneMOD v3.0 in Development

Postby Deager » 03 Jul 2016, 02:46

Yeah, this is a fun moment in modding. Better late than never and we can probably put the finishing touches on our mods just in time for Andromeda. ;)
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Re: ThaneMOD v3.0 in Development

Postby giftfish » 11 Jul 2016, 21:13

In the interest of trying to gather as much feedback as possible about a potential new feature in the next and final release of ThaneMOD I'm posting this here, as well as the TM forums :)

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ThaneMOD v3.0 will have significant modifications to existing content in order to allow users to always keep the mod installed regardless of Thane's import or romance status. However, if the player is always going to keep the mod installed, then it's necessary for them to have more control over Thane's fate. To achieve this goal, I'll be implementing a new funding request for "Hanar Research Scientists" at the spectre terminal. It will trigger only under certain plot conditions, and if the player authorizes the funds, Thane will survive ME3. This way, the player has active control of Thane's fate, and his survival isn't passively guaranteed as a result of other actions the player takes. For example, it gives the player the freedom to choose to save Kahje, but to not save Thane. The idea is a bit similar to Miranda's mechanic involving the spectre funds.

Taking this concept a step further -- and in light of advances in modding -- it's also now possible to insert a brand new fate for Thane in ME3: death by Kepral's.

With some creative dialogue editing, this concept is entirely feasible. It's not something I would use myself -- and it's not something I really want to do -- but it is theoretically possible and I am entertaining the thought. It will not be a small amount of work, however. It's going to involve editing the coup files themselves, Bailey's coup wrap up, the Huerta death scene, and probably some epilogue files as Thane would no longer be a "sacrifice" if he died by Kepral's. In other words, it will be complicated. For that reason, I don't want to undertake the project unless there is an actual demand from players.

If there is, then the next complication is figuring out how to implement some level of player control between the two types of death: coup or Kepral's. Survival will be determined by permitting the spectre funds for the new HRS opportunity, but there has to be a way to determine what kind of death occurs if both are available.

I've laid out te blueprint for a system even more similar to Miranda's Horizon mechanic, which allows player-controlled variation in Thane's fate based upon an integer count. Points can be earned by loyalty, Huerta convos 1 & 2, saving Kahje, authorizing the spectre funds, ME2 romance status, ME3 romance status, and more. Points can be lost by letting Kahje fall, not permitting the spectre funds, no loyalty, or breaking up with Thane. It would be something to be effect of: <=0 points triggers coup death, 1-4 points = Kepral's death, and 5-10 points (and spectre funds) = survival. Don't quote me on those; this is theoretical right now.

Using this strategy, it would be very difficult for a romanced Thane to die assuming the spectre funds are authorized. A loyal, friend Thane is savable but it takes effort; all available points must be earned. An unloyal Thane is doomed to the coup, as already in TM.

If people don't like the Kepral's idea, then I'll keep things simple: spectre funds = survive, no spectre funds = coup.

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I'd appreciate feedback from both ThaneMOD users and non-ThaneMOD users :)

In theory, non-ThaneMOD users don't use the mod as they don't want Thane to live, so the mod is pointless. However, would you want to use the mod to have control over the type of death, avoiding Kai Lame, in addition to getting some new Thane-related bug fixes?

Conversely, current ThaneMOD users: would you be interested in the potential for a (controllable) Kepral's death?

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EDIT: One other change in TMv3.0 that is related to the above. Post-coup, Thane will no longer have the ability to die offscreen with his name inexplicably added to the Memorial Wall mid game.

If he dies from the coup, I have two options. Option 1: Kolyat sends Shepard an email notifying him/her about the death, which then sets the death bool, allowing the name on the wall. Option 2: Thane will die 1 mission post-coup, but the memorial wall will not check for his death until the epilogue, like all other ME2 squadmates. His name will then appear on the wall at that point, if appropriate.

If death-by-Kepral's is implemented, it will ultimately be treated like Option 2 above. I'll retain Thane's availability in Huerta through Thessia, so he's accessible for the death scene for the entire second half of the game. Post-coup, I'd probably have Kolyat send friend/LI Shepard a short email about his father's "rapidly deteriorating" condition or some such. Something to prompt the player to Huerta for the scene.

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Re: ThaneMOD v3.0 in Development

Postby CreeperLava » 11 Jul 2016, 21:30

I like the mechanic you are describing for the survival of Thane, it adds some real consequences to your actions, more than just choosing to authorize or not the spectre funds. I generally play a "nice" Shepard, so letting squadmates die isn't something I would favor consciously. However, that he could die even with he being a friend of Shepard is interesting, it adds some challenge and can surprise the player.

I'll have to try playing a renegade Shepard (it will be hard^^), in which case I'd most likely be interested in this kind of feature. Why waste time and ressources on Keplar research when you have a war to fight and a galaxy to save ?
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Re: ThaneMOD v3.0 in Development

Postby giftfish » 11 Jul 2016, 21:46

CreeperLava wrote:I like the mechanic you are describing for the survival of Thane, it adds some real consequences to your actions, more than just choosing to authorize or not the spectre funds. I generally play a "nice" Shepard, so letting squadmates die isn't something I would favor consciously. However, that he could die even with he being a friend of Shepard is interesting, it adds some challenge and can surprise the player.

The surprise could be a bit of the bad part, so I'm evaluating this carefully. The last thing I want is to disappoint ThaneMOD users even more :(

What might also work is something like this: unloyal=coup, loyal+no HRS = Keprals, HRS (which requires loyalty and some other things to be accessible) = survive. I'm not 100% sure yet that option does everything I'd need it to do; there's a lot of things to think about when overhauling a character's fate like this.

CreeperLava wrote:Why waste time and resources on Keplar research when you have a war to fight and a galaxy to save ?

Right :] That's exactly the way I intended folks to RP it when I came up with the idea. Even for non-renegade players, they could still treat it as a cost-benefit scenario, determine that there just isn't enough money to make it a priority, and then deny the request.

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Also, forgot to include another detail in the previous post. Edit incoming.
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