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[ARTICLE] Texplorer

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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby KFreon » 26 Jun 2015, 23:26

@gift on unpacking: It takes me well over an hour without an SSD. I just think it should be noted that it can take hours so people don't think it's stuck after 20 minutes.
On modding procedures: I defer to you here, since I use TPFTools for everything. Slightly biased here though :P

I wasn't aware preview wasn't there anymore. It shall be re-added ASAP.
Furthermore, the revamp does this: Double click makes a texture fullscreen, single click on the fullscreen closes it.

Glad I could be of service :)
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby giftfish » 26 Jun 2015, 23:32

CreeperLava wrote:
giftfish wrote:And, finally, DDSes. I can certainly amend this statement, but Texplorer is incredibly easy to use. It's not a complicated tool. To me, there's no real difference between Texplorer and TPF Tools when it comes to replacing a couple of DDS files. The novelty of a TPF is that it can contain many DDSes, so with one click you can install a bunch. But, if a user has only a couple DDS files that they made themselves or found somewhere else, then they will probably feel comfortable using Texplorer. The Search Bar fucking rocks, and replacing is just Add Biggest + Save Changes. And, of course, the file name doesn't matter.

So, maybe what I'll do is explain that the user can use whichever tool they prefer, but if TPF Tool is used it won't be able to locate the corresponding game texture unless the hash is in the file name. That's an important detail actually.

Just a quick note : I think most users will be confused if you point out two different tools that do the same thing, with advantages for both. Imho TPF/DDS should be the only one advised for the general user, with Texplorer being reserved for more advanced and specific texture editing. After all, most people will want to install as many textures as quickly as possible, and bulk downloading/installing TPFs with TPF/DDS Tools is the most efficient/quick way. Not many will only want to replace specific textures.

I will definitely point out that the advantage of TPF Tools is bulk replacement, b/c that is indeed it's big advantage and purpose. That and being able to permanently install TPFs that might have originally been made for Texmod, lol.

But, I don't see it as our place to dictate to any user what they are "supposed" to use. Texplorer is an easy tool to learn and it does a great job at replacing raw DDS files. The replacement DDS can have any name, and it's very helpful to be able to first examine firsthand the texture you want to replace and verify its format. Then, with a couple clicks you can replace it. Whether a user has only a few DDSes or a bunch, if they want to use Texplorer, then let them. The tools work differently, and ultimately, it's their preference.

This isn't a situation like with .mod files and .tpf files where .mod files -- and therefore ModMaker -- has a distinct disadvantage, and therefore, should not be used. Texplorer and TPF Tools both work for this particular purpose, and both have different advantages. It's like having to decide between editing a txt file with MS Word or Notepad ++. They both work, they both have different advantages, and whichever the someone picks is mostly based on their preference. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, and I don't think users will be confused.

It won't a big discussion, btw. A succinct sentence or two is all it will take. And, my guess is that it won't even make a difference. Most folks are used to using TPF Tools at this point, and once familiar with something, people tend to stick with it :]

-------------------

@Kfreon -- Btw, when I use TPF Tools I typically have Texplorer open at the same time. I like to compare the modded texture with the vanilla/current texture so I can see what's different. I also like to know the size of the original texture. These are things you can't see with TPF Tools alone. The former is also something that can't be done with the current Texplorer revs due to that whole "no preview" thing above, lol. Hence me extracting lots of textures to get a closer look.

And....just saw your new post as I previewed this. Yay on the new preview system in the revamp, wewt! :D
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby KFreon » 27 Jun 2015, 00:18

Regarding using Texplorer: It's just that if a user comes to me with a bug and they used Texplorer, the first thing I'm going to say is "did you try TPFTools". The debug path is just more familiar to me.
I guess you're right though, we shouldn't be deciding for them, BUT we can recommend :P

It's a minor thing and I don't think it affects the overall message or usage.

As for the last part, you can see the original texture size in TPFTools under "Tree size" or something.
No original preview though, and that won't be coming either. There's not enough space :P That said...could be a button...

Also, I checked, and double clicking Thumbs in Texplorer does make them big. I'm glad that's still there :)
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby giftfish » 27 Jun 2015, 19:38

[quote="KFreon"]Also, I checked, and double clicking Thumbs in Texplorer does make them big. I'm glad that's still there :)

Holy ****, how did I miss this!? Thanks for pointing it out. I need to add it to the wiki, lol. It works just like I was thinking it should. I'm guessing it's the not right-clicking that threw me off.

[quote="KFreon"]As for the last part, you can see the original texture size in TPFTools under "Tree size" or something.

Newp, not that I can see. There's tree mips/format but not size. Maybe size is in the revamp? I might have even suggested that previously...
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby giftfish » 27 Jun 2015, 21:36

@Kfreon -- FYI, edits done. I'll have to pop back in to change the SF version number once you release it, but that's fine.
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby KFreon » 28 Jun 2015, 00:13

Huh...size must be in the new one then. Oh well.
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby CreeperLava » 28 Jun 2015, 07:40

I may have found a new bug in Texplorer. The treebuilding works great, but when I decided to build a ME3 tree, Texplorer didn't even ask if I wanted to extract the DLCs. It automatically began extracting them. You've probably forgotten a conditional somewhere^^. Note : this only happened with ME3 treebuilding.

Edit : Maybe I just misunderstood it and Texplorer will ask me before beginning to scan, I'll edit the post if it is the case.
Edit 2 : It did ask me which DLCs to scan in the end, but I still think it would be better to ask this before extracting, as you don't need extracted DLCs if you don't mod them anyways. Plus it takes a loooong time to extract.
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby giftfish » 28 Jun 2015, 14:25

CreeperLava wrote:I may have found a new bug in Texplorer. The treebuilding works great, but when I decided to build a ME3 tree, Texplorer didn't even ask if I wanted to extract the DLCs. It automatically began extracting them. You've probably forgotten a conditional somewhere^^. Note : this only happened with ME3 treebuilding.

Edit : Maybe I just misunderstood it and Texplorer will ask me before beginning to scan, I'll edit the post if it is the case.
Edit 2 : It did ask me which DLCs to scan in the end, but I still think it would be better to ask this before extracting, as you don't need extracted DLCs if you don't mod them anyways. Plus it takes a loooong time to extract.

Creeper, this is what's supposed to happen, as far as I understand it. It's the best way to guarantee DLC mod compatibility with BW DLC, and was part of the discussion in the DLC mod threads, as we were trying to figure out the new process Keeping all DLC in the same format is the only way to prevent the TOCing problems, and TOCing problems can cause a lot of other issues. Heff and Fob worked it out while K was busy a while back.

I'm glad you asked this, though, b/c I actually forgot about a feature of Texplorer that I'll have to place in the article. The PCC-specific texture replacement. Does this work? It's present in the current SF, and it does not. Can you actually select the specific PCCs for a texture change to affect? If not, then I need to make sure people know.

Btw, how long did it take? I might need to bump those numbers up in the article, lol...
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby CreeperLava » 28 Jun 2015, 14:33

Oh, sorry, forgot about that. Plus I should have posted in the bug topic, not here^^. I'd say about two hours for the scan, not too sure about the number, as I have let it run in the background without checking on it. Might be 3 hours.
As for the pcc's, you can check and uncheck specific ones in the tab next to preview. Don't know if it does work though, haven't tested it.
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Re: [ARTICLE] Texplorer

Postby giftfish » 28 Jun 2015, 14:42

@Creeper -- Thanks for the info on timing.

And looks like we've found one more thing that needs to be tested. I'll make a post in the bug forum to see if anyone has used it. Might get some responses.
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